Daredevil and Punisher (Philosophical) Dialogue

In my junior year of high school, taking IB Philosophy, I had to write a dialogue between two characters (either of my own creation, or previously developed). This dialogue, of course, had to have something to do with philosophy.

I chose to use Daredevil and the Punisher (man, I am obsessed with the funny books). I chose them because they are typically at odds with one another philosophically/ideologically.

Here it is, as it was written something like three years ago. Of course, now I know a little bit more about philosophy.

I believe my point was that Daredevil was arguing for Rule Utilitarianism, while the Punisher is a believer in Act Utilitarianism. Not sure if my aim was all that accurate.

(As you'll be able to tell, this thing is rife with references to specific stories, or has a little humor based on the number of times these two characters have crossed paths and nothing has really gotten done. Not sure if any of this was picked up on by any of the IB Readers/Graders.)

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DAREDEVIL
You’ve killed almost fifteen hundred murderers, drug dealers, rapists, and Mafioso. What do you call that?

PUNISHER
A work in progress.

DAREDEVIL
You have to let the law handle things, Frank.

PUNISHER
The law is nothing but a bureaucratic system that gives people a false sense of confidence.

DAREDEVIL
The law keeps order in the world.

PUNISHER
Order? You mean like the order imposed by gangs in a ghetto? The order that comes with the mafia’s hierarchy? Order has nothing to do with justice!

DAREDEVIL
Is that what you think you’re doing? Serving justice?

PUNISHER
That’s exactly what I’m doing.

DAREDEVIL
You go about killing people because they’re criminals. That makes you a criminal.

PUNISHER
I know. I know that I’m a criminal. You are, too. We have to be criminals. This world needs vigilantes to pick up the slack.

DAREDEVIL
You and I are nothing alike, Frank.

PUNISHER
Really? We both attack criminals. We don’t even wait for them to attack us, so that it’s self-defense. We go after them, deliberately. The both of us. We hurt them. We punch them, we kick them, we beat them down until they’re black and blue and bleeding. The only difference is that I kill murderers, drug dealers, and rapists, while you let your precious law take care of them. And on those too few occasions when those bastards do get what they deserve, you think your hands are clean because you aren’t directly responsible for their death.

DAREDEVIL
I’m not responsible at all. Those people are punished by the law, not me. They’re responsible for their own deaths.

PUNISHER
Does that mean that I’m not responsible for the deaths of those whom I kill?

DAREDEVIL
That’s… that’s different.

PUNISHER
How so?

DAREDEVIL
There’s an entire system behind the deaths of the convicted capital offenders. A system that represents, serves, and protects two-hundred-and-fifty million people. Yeah, it doesn’t work right away. The system has its flaws; there are some kinks to be worked out. But in the end, it does the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

PUNISHER
My way does the greatest good for the greatest number of people, but in a more immediate fashion.

DAREDEVIL
How can you say that?

PUNISHER
I shouldn’t even have to say it. You can ask the old man who’s not going to be mugged and stabbed while jogging through Central Park. You can ask the kid on the playground who’s not going to be given amphetamines that look like candy by some dealer looking to expand his business. You can ask the little girl who’s not going to be raped. … You can ask the man that doesn’t have to watch his family get gunned down because they accidentally see a Mafia execution while on a family picnic. … I don’t just kill criminals; I prevent innocents from becoming victims.

DAREDEVIL
That’s what the law does, Frank. It protects the innocent.

PUNISHER
But it doesn’t punish the guilty!

DAREDEVIL
It does. It just doesn’t murder them outright.

PUNISHER
So drug dealers and rapist just go to prison, serve their time, and get freed. It’s only a matter of time until they go back to victimizing innocents. Criminals play the system like a fucking violin and you know it.

DAREDEVIL
What about you, Frank?!? You were arrested! You went to Ryker’s! Then, you escaped!

PUNISHER
And?

DAREDEVIL
Three times, Frank! You did it three times!

PUNISHER
Exactly!!! If the people believe that I’m nothing but a murderer, then why have I never been given the death sentence? Why have I always been given the opportunity to escape?

DAREDEVIL
You’re not given the opportunity; you just make it, Frank.

PUNISHER
Wrong, Murdock.

DAREDEVIL
…What?…

PUNISHER
Yeah. I know your “secret” identity.

DAREDEVIL
No, not that. (Everyone knows that). I mean, were you really given the opportunity?

PUNISHER
Yeah. The first time I escaped, I was busted out by some feds. They needed to take down a narcotics run, but they were tied up by the law. They knew the difference between Law and Justice.

DAREDEVIL
I can’t believe it…

PUNISHER
Believe it. The government does plenty of things that you’d consider “extralegal”. Come on, you’ve dealt with S.H.I.E.L.D.

DAREDEVIL
Just because other people do it doesn’t make it okay.

PUNISHER
Don’t you fight so hard for the law because of a bunch of “other people”?

DAREDEVIL
…That’s… Well, what about the two other times? Feds bust you out then?

PUNISHER
No. The second time, I worked with a mob boss and his goons. The--

DAREDEVIL
You worked with a mob boss?!?

PUNISHER
Oh, don’t worry, Murdock. I betrayed them all. They died. Now, the third time, I actually posed as a black convict whose buddies were busting him out (it was his idea).

DAREDEVIL
Black…?

PUNISHER
It’s a funny story involving some big time plastic surgery. I’d tell you, but we aren’t exactly pals and we’re far too busy fighting each other on rooftops and in back alleys.

DAREDEVIL
We wouldn’t have to fight if you’d just see that the law is what’s best. You might see it as a form of mob mentality, but the fewest people get hurt.

PUNISHER
No. A lot of people get hurt. Far too many. It’s on TV, in the papers… it’s right in front of our eyes.

DAREDEVIL
But what makes you think that your alternative produces better results? You take so many lives!

PUNISHER
Only the lives of those who deserve to be killed.

DAREDEVIL
You were once studying to be a priest, Frank. What happened to the man who believed in the judgment of God? Doesn’t taking a life, no matter whose, disobey one of God’s most important laws?

PUNISHER
Ever the good little Catholic, Devil. As far as I’m concerned, God’s too slow. Besides, it’s not exactly like He dishes out the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

DAREDEVIL
You really have lost your faith, haven’t you?

PUNISHER
According to most religions, God only rewards those who serve their interpretation of Him. The rest burn. There are simply too few people who live up to the standards prescribed by any religious text. If God only serves those few, then how does he serve the greatest good for the greatest number of people?

DAREDEVIL
It all depends on how you look at things, I guess.

PUNISHER
The same could be said about our individual M.O.s.

DAREDEVIL
Frank… one day, it’s really all going to come down. Something big will happen. I’ll have to fight you for something bigger than my beliefs. When that day comes, it won’t be pretty, and I might not win, but I’ll die trying.

PUNISHER
Does that mean I live to fight another day?

DAREDEVIL
I’d never kill you, Frank. You’d always live to fight another die.

PUNISHER
That’s too bad, Daredevil. Believe me, if I felt that a vigilante had to go down, I’d kill him. Knowing what I am, I feel like killing myself every day.

DAREDEVIL
Not that I think you should, but why don’t you?

PUNISHER
Because, Matt, there are still people to be protected. And in order to protect them, I’ll always have to punish others. It’s the little bit of good that I do.